Stop All the Inaugural Whining
For all of you 48%'ers looking for something else to complain about pertaining to our Great 2-Term President, before you go off "half-cocked" any more on the inauguration costs, one needs only to look back a few years to our good friend Mr. Clinton to see how much the world's most famous party animal spent on his inauguration and parties. You see, he spent more than our current president and also had a record 12 balls planned for his inauguration. Your whining is nothing more than partisan rhetoric and another way to spew hatred for George W. Bush.
On a separate, but related, note...how did they get the word "homophobic" put into the dictionary? I was wondering because I think it would be a good idea to add the new word, "Christophobic" to the dictionary also. A MUCH larger percentage of the world is Christian than it is homosexual and also there is much more hatred loosed on Christianity than on homosexuality, so why not add this term as well? Thousands upon thousands have died for their faith in Christ as a result of the hatred of God and Christianity. Homosexuality cannot claim this. What is the submission process for new words? Anyone? Anyone?
posted by Mike at 1/27/2005 07:49:00 AM
12 Comments:
Mike, you knucklehead. I read blogs to enjoy provactive thought not read how you are provoked by your own thoughts. Be solid in your faith, but don't wear it on your sleeve. Separate your church and state.
"Thousands upon thousands have died for their faith in Christ as a result of the hatred of God and Christianity. Homosexuality cannot claim this." I think the thousands and thousands of homosexuals who died in the Holocaust would beg to differ. See here.And see also those homosexuals who have been killed by the governements of Islamic nations. "Al-Fatiha estimates that 4,000 homosexuals have been executed in Iran since their revolution in 1979. 10 public executions of homosexuals have been performed in Afghanistan by the Taliban army."
It took me about 3 minutes on google to find this much.
Andy
When President Clinton was inaugurated in 92 and 96 we were not in the middle of a $200 billion dollar war with 1300 Americans dead. We were also reducing the deficit not increasing it by hundreds of billions.
On point two hundreds of thousands if not millions have been killed by _Christians_ because they did not have faith in Christ. See the Crusades, Inquisition, American settlement, etc. I dare say Christians have killed, by several factors, more non-Christians for religious reasons than visa versa, dude.
2 points.....Wow, 4,000 homosexuals.......did you know that over 100,000,000 Christians have been killed by government actions in the 20th Century alone for their faith? That is over 100 Million people killed specifically because they professed faith in Christ and this is in the 20th Century alone and only the ones recorded by government action. As to the other "anonymous" posting. You can "assume a number of homosexuals" died in the holocaust, but you cannot give a firm number...though I will give you the 3% that reflects the accurate number of homosexuals present in society today, which, still doesn't compare with the ongoing persecution and extinction that Christians face today; nor can you claim that they were killed because they were homosexual. They died because an empire of evil had a hatred for the Jews.
As for the Crusades, have you seen anything posted on this blog that indicates that I supported the Crusades? I disagree entirely with the thought process behind the Crusades (in which maybe a million died as opposed to the ongoing persecution and killing of Christians that still occurs today), so, "Dude" you would be wrong when you say that so-called Christians killed more in the Crusades than have been killed for their faith, though I would term the Crusades as a Catholic "thing" as opposed to a Christian "thing." You are using Christian in the broadest sense possible, and their beliefs (Catholic Crusaders) are anything but Christian.
Craigers.....Knucklehead? How can you separate your faith from anything? You either have it or you don't, and it affects everything I am and everything I do! It affects my vote, it affects my actions, it affects every area of my belief. It is like telling me to not wear my "human-ness" on my sleeve. It is who I am....so why would I even try to separate it from anything???
I add the following quote for all you who posted on this article on my blog.
This has been a century of unmatched Christian martyrdom. It began with the mass murder of Christians in Armenia; it is ending with the mass murder of Christians in Sudan. Then as now, the world looked away, even as it looked away during the most unspeakable mass murder of all, the Holocaust. --Jeff Jacoby, Boston Globe, December 4, 1996
Persecution
. . .Which, is what "separation of church and state" really means, after all.....though you will not find those words in our constitution. The above definition is not the intent of most when using this terminology. . . they twist it to say that no "religion" belongs in government. What it states is that Government is to stay out of "religion" or promoting/causing a State religion (this is one of the reasons for the Revolutionary War to begin with) One needs only to look at a history book or visit Washington DC to see God all over everything our Forefathers did.... I wholeheartedly agree with my brother Scott....it is what the Bill of Rights means when it states in the 1st Amendment, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
I'm going to take a deep breath and move the discussion over here...my temper was getting the best of me at Andy's site.
But, let me reiterate that I don't think it's fair to compare the level of persecution or genocide or whatever by the number of bodies found. The 9,000 homosexuals (if that's the number we will use) killed by the Nazis are as terrible as the millions of Christians killed and the hundreds of thousands of Tutsis killed in Rwanda in 1994.
And I have to take offense to Betty Jo's statement that there have never been homosexuals who have been persecuted. Perhaps "persecuted" is too strong of a word to use. But, Betty Jo, you can't deny the fact that thousands of homosexuals have been killed, from Harvey Milk to Brandon Teena, simply for being homosexual. The brave few who were publicly homosexual in Hitler's Germany were to be dealt the same fate as the Jews there. But still, today, while dozens of homosexuals might not be killed on a daily basis, many thousands will be verbally or physically harrassed in public or will live in shame for the feelings they have.
There are real differences, Mike, in what straight couples can do and what gay couples can do. For instance, I'm not allowed to serve in the military, because I'm openly homosexual. Of course, I could hide that fact, as thousands of members of the armed forces do, but that wouldn't be truthful. In some states, stable and loving gay individuals or couples are not allowed to adopt children...simply for sharing a relationship with another member of the same sex. There are thousands of other examples.
I'm not looking for any of you to approve my lifestyle. What I, and the rest of the gay population of this country are looking for, is simply your respect. While some might consider it "god's work" to convince us otherwise or use biblical reasoning to damn us to hell, we find that simply another example of the overarching power that Christianity has in our culture, and we react to it. It may seem hateful to you, but as Mike said, this country was founded on religious freedom, which includes the freedom to be free of religion.
While these barriers to serving in the military and parter benefits are in place, we don't have that same respect that Christians do in this country. We are second-class citizens.
Well, Ryan, welcome to my side of things......glad you came over.....I will say, that my original intent was not to say that gays are not persecuted....I'm certain that they are....All too often, this debate is fueled by hatred, so I can understand why, when someone like me comes along, you would assume that I am all "hellfire and brimstone" and am saying nothing more than you've heard before. I would agree with the assessment that many times we (as Christians) are too caustic and abrasive, especially toward homosexuals....part of this is because we believe firmly that homosexuality is wrong. And when I say that, it doesn't mean that you are less of a person, or that I should disrespect you as a human being. I try to go out of my way to NOT do this. So, when the gay pride parades take place or when the infamous "sponge-bob video" type of thing takes place many of us react harshly because we believe it is wrong, and we don't want it pushed on our children. (I will say at this point that WAY too often our leaders speak before they think and we come off looking like idiots, though in Dr. Dobson's defense I do believe he was attacked a little harshly and things might have been over-blown a bit...such is the case so often on both sides) The bottom line is, as Christians, we need to be able to share with you that Christ loves you. Just as he forgave me and continues to forgive me of my sin, He can do the same for you....no matter what that sin is. Now I realize that you may have a different opinion as to what sin is, etc. But really, Sin is Sin......whether it be homosexuality, or lying or stealing or prejudice or bigotry, etc.....I realize that this may anger you.....that is not my intent....I know that if you see something as perfectly normal and acceptable and someone else sees it differently that there has to be some contention between the two, but so often the over-arching theme of what I'm supposed to be sharing, the love of Christ, is blanked out because of anger, bitterness and the strife that arises out of our disagreement. I hope and pray that I can overcome this. Know this....if nothing else, our little interaction this week has allowed me to see things a little more clearly from your point of view....and though you probably don't want to hear this....I certainly will be praying for you. I'm not sure this is the case with you, but for many caught up in the gay lifestyle...they so often feel trapped and are actually looking for a way out....maybe you're not in that place right now...but, who knows....perhaps you will be someday.....I hope you feel free to come back anytime and talk further about this...and I hope there are no hard feelings.....
Mike, there are no hard feelings at all.
But when you start talking about the love of Christ that you're meant to share, that's where it gets a bit testy. If I were to say the same thing about wanting to share the love of homosexuality, I would be harshly criticized by those who are homophobic and others.
I appreciate the prayers, but let me inform you that instead of being trapped in the gay lifestyle, I am now finally free of being trapped living a lie in the "straight" one.
Being gay isn't a choice that anyone makes. I promise you, it's not. I find it hard to comprehend why someone would want to put themselves in the position that gay people are in, knowing the hatred and prejudice that many people have against gay people.
And I've yet to meet a gay man or woman who acts that way because it was "pushed" on to them...victims of abuse notwithstanding. Being gay isn't something you can catch by seeing an episode of SpongeBob on TV or by shaking hands with a gay person.
Every month or two another article comes out indicating that being gay probably has some kind of genetic background, like hair color or certain birth defects do. In hiding this biological tendency and staying in the closet, millions of gay men and lesbians live lives full of depression and lacking truth. They might start families with opposite-gender partners and then leave those partners once the pain of secrecy or the depression becomes too much. I personally know at least a handful of gay fathers who are divorced from former wives and now raising their children with or without same-sex partners.
The basis of our movement, if you will, is to normalize us. We aren't freaks doomed to an unhappy life; we are doctors, lawyers, teachers, musicians, athletes, mothers, fathers, friends, brothers, and sisters. Some of us are even Christian. We pay taxes and raise children like every other family in America. We have our problems just like every other family in America, too. You may not like what we do in private, but we don't think you have the right to prejudge us and deny us certain things based upon the genders of the people we are intimate with.
I appreciate your prayers, but I hope you realize that instead of sharing your love, many consider what you do to be offensive. Hence the knee-jerk, anti-Christian reaction that many have.
What you have stated is just how it is with Christianity. I understand the knee-jerk reaction. This is not something particular to homosexuals......no matter who you share the message of Christ with, there is often a knee-jerk reaction. You see, for a person to know Christ at all, they must first realize they NEED to know Him. This means that we must all first see that we have "all sinned and fall short of the glory of God." This "gets all over" some people because they think it is so judgmental. However, this is the nature of the message and we have to be faithful to it. I realize that there are even "Christian Homosexuals." Let me tell you, I would even get sharp disagreement from many Christians on this very point. Often, we, as Christians, think that the opposite of homosexuality is heterosexuality.....and try to expend our energy forcing you to be heterosexual. I would say that this is not necessarily the case. I would say that the opposite of homosexuality is holiness. As a Christian Homosexual, I believe that your homosexuality would "bother" you, and you would have to allow God to deal with it and be willing to give it up just as an alcoholic Christian would struggle with his sin, or a Christian who is an habitual adulterer would struggle with his sin. As I've said before, sin is sin. If a heterosexual is having sex before or outside the bonds of marriage, it is the same as a homosexual having sex outside the bonds of marriage. (This brings up another point that I will have to cover later at length).
I am curious as to your thoughts on the following....Let's say we embrace homosexuality as a society....we accept it wholeheartedly and proclaim that once and for all, homosexuality is morally acceptable. Then, where do we draw the line? Would it be okay for brothers to marry? If there is a segment of society that thinks it is okay to have relations with animals are we to just accept that as well since there is a group of people that think this is okay? It is the logic (or lack of) in this argument that has always troubled me. You, as a homosexual are basing your feeling of being "mistreated" on a standard of right and wrong. What is this based upon? What law do you appeal to that tells you that to be mistreated is wrong? And if there is a law that tells you this...where did it come from? What is it based upon? It makes no sense, from a logic standpoint, that you can on one hand appeal to a sense of right and wrong, or a "law," if you will, of right and wrong, and on the other hand try to make something "morally acceptable" that has been viewed as wrong for thousands of years. You might as well be trying to convince the world that 2 + 2 no longer equals 4. You may believe it wholeheartedly and give your very life in the pursuit to make the world see that 2 + 2 does not equal 4 any longer....no matter what you think, there is still a standard of right and wrong, and despite your best effort, 2 + 2 will ALWAYS equal 4. I realize this is a crude illustration, but perhaps you understand a little better where I am coming from. Is it hate speech to say to a child, "I'm sorry Johnny, but 2 + 2 does, in fact equal 4?" There is obviously a point of contention, but there is also a standard in math that tells us definite answers. In the same way, there is a standard of right and wrong that gives us definite answers, and to try and erode and mutate this simply defies logic.
But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations. Psalm 33:11
He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind. I Samuel 15:29
First, actually, you are incorrect. The definition of a cult is "a system of beliefs that is outside the teachings of orthodox, historical Christianity." Religion may, in fact, evolve. Religion teaches there is a "higher-power" and what that higher power may be is left up to interpretation. Christianity, on the other hand, teaches there is One True God, and He is not left up to "interpretation." So, in this regard, Christianity has not "evolved." Biblical Christianity is the same as it has always been, with the same creeds and same beliefs. Mormonism IS still considered a cult, as well as are Jehovah's Witnesses, despite what you may think about them, because they differ completely from Orthodox Christianity....yes, they are religions, but they are "counterfeits," if you will, of true, Orthodox Christianity. Much in the same way we are able to identify a counterfeit 20 Dollar Bill because we are so familiar with what the real thing is supposed to look like, if I had no standard by which to measure these "religions" then there would be no way to distinguish between them and True Christianity.
Secondly, certainly marriage does exist in civilizations where the Bible is not "adhered to" and it certainly existed before the Bible was written. However, the one "static" that you fail to mention is that it has ALWAYS been between a man and a woman. Whether the wives were deemed as property (which, by the way, Christianity was a great liberator of women from this practice; see I Corinthians) or "Inter-Racial Marriage" was frowned upon, you cannot use these instances as a basis for your argument, because they were ALWAYS between a man and a woman. Simply because someone put a religious reference to their fight against the Inter-Racial Marriage or supported women being the "property" of their husbands did not make them right, nor did it reflect the nature of true, Biblical Christianity. So, the manner of your argument has no basis in allowing homosexual marriage from a historical standpoint. In addition, the Bible DOES teach that homosexuality (an act) is wrong and is an abomination in God's eyes, whereas it does not condemn Race or Gender (states of being that cannot be changed).
Lastly I will reiterate, it is non sequitur for you to ever be "offended" by any comparison since the "offensive" acts (according to your argument) of which you speak may be included inside a NEW line society can draw in the future, based on your "societal evolution." And since there is no firm basis for right or wrong, who are you to judge the acts of incest or bestiality? I can know of a certainty that these acts are wrong, but how can you, based on your philosophy of a "fluid, changing morality?"
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