Rational Discourse???

Ryan....c'mon....rational discourse? I believe that this is probably the most rational discourse you have ever had with someone like me. The American College of Pediatricians is cherry picking? Ryan, we could argue all day about different studies, theories and "scientific findings." The truth is we can both pull up statistic after statistic from both sides of the issue if we wanted to. I will say this....that the Kinsey Studies have been proven to be terribly flawed...and I think you know this. And, it was primarily these studies that led to the removal of homosexuality from the list of psychological disorders. And you state this as though it was a unanimous vote by the APA...(see article below)

In the three years leading up to the 1973 APA meeting, the previous national meetings had been repeatedly disrupted by gay activists. At the 1970 meeting in San Francisco certain sessions were broken up with shouts and jeers, prohibiting any rational discussion or debate. At the APA's 1971 meeting in Washington, threats and intimidation accomplished what discussion could not. Ronald Bayer, in a work sympathetic toward homosexuality and the gay rights movement, recounts: "Using forged credentials, gay activists gained access to the exhibit area and, coming across a display marketing aversive conditioning [i.e., punishing an organism whenever it makes a particular response] techniques for the treatment of homosexuals, demanded its removal. Threats were made against the exhibitor, who was told that unless his booth was dismantled, it would be torn down. After frantic behind-the-scenes consultations, and in an effort to avoid violence, the convention leadership agreed to have the booth removed."16 These tactics continued in the same manner at the APA's 1972 national meeting. It was against this backdrop that the association's trustees finally made its controversial 1973 decision. When a referendum on this was sent out to all 25,000 APA members, only a quarter of them returned their ballots. The final tally was 58 percent favoring the removal of homosexuality from their list of disorders. Four years later, Dr. Charles Socarides — who was at the meetings and was an expert in the area of homosexuality, having treated homosexuals for more than twenty years — described the political atmosphere leading up to the 1973 vote. He writes that during this time, "militant homosexual groups continued to attack any psychiatrist or psychoanalyst who dared to present his findings as to the psychopathology [i.e., the study of mental disorders from all aspects] of homosexuality before national or local meetings of psychiatrists or in public forums."17 Elsewhere Socarides stated that the decision of the APA trustees was "the medical hoax of the century."18 Was this the end of the debate? Did the vast majority of "competent" psychiatrists agree with the APA's decision? In 1977 ten thousand members of the APA were polled at random, asking them their opinion on this. In an article entitled "Sick Again?" Time magazine summarized the results of the poll: "Of those answering, 69% said they believed 'homosexuality is usually a pathological adaptation, as opposed to a normal variation,' 18% disagreed and 13% were uncertain. Similarly, sizable majorities said that homosexuals are generally less happy than heterosexuals (73%) and less capable of mature, loving relationships (60%). A total of 70% said that homosexuals' problems have more to do with their own inner conflicts than with stigmatization by society at large."19 But what about today? Has this issue been resolved in current medical opinion and research? Concerning this, Dr. Stanton L. Jones, professor of psychology at Wheaton College, states that there is a "mixed scorecard" among professionals on this. He writes: "I would not regard homosexuality to be a psychopathology in the same sense as schizophrenia or phobic disorders. But neither can it be viewed as a normal 'lifestyle variation' on a par with being introverted versus extroverted."20 One may debate whether or not homosexuality is a pathological disorder, but it is clear that the APA's 1973 decision cannot be cited as medical consensus that homosexuality is a "normal" condition.

You can view this entire article in its entirety by clicking the title of the post above. Now, as far as "rational" are you saying that I have been anything but rational in these posts? Am I "irrational" simply because I disagree? Have I been over the top on anything? I haven't been demeaning to you, or called you names, or condemned you. If anything, I think we've both been quite rational in our discussion, which I have appreciated up to this point.....

Works Cited 15 For those interested in the history leading up to the APA's 1973 removal of homosexuality from their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Psychiatric Disorders, see Ronald Bayer, Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis (New York: Basic Books, 1981), 101-54; William Dannemeyer, Shadow in the Land (San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1989), 24-39. 16 Bayer, 105-6. 17 Charles W. Socarides, Beyond Sexual Freedom (New York: Quadrangle Books, 1977), 87. Prior to the 1973 vote Dr. Socarides led the APA's task force studying homosexuality, which issued a report unanimously declaring homosexuality to be a disorder of psychosexual development. This report, considered to be too politically inflammatory, was shelved, only later being published as a "study group" report in 1974. 18 Charles W. Socarides in Robert Kronemeyer, Overcoming Homosexuality (New York: Macmillan Publishing Co., 1980), 5. 19 "Sick Again? Psychiatrists Vote on Gays," Time, 20 February 1978, 102. 20 Stanton L. Jones, "Homosexuality According to Science," in J. Isamu Yamamoto, ed., The Crisis of Homosexuality (Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1990), 107.